Most mfr's don't pay travel time or mileage on parts.
Most mfr's don't pay travel time or mileage on parts.
Ranting incoherently
so he should have driven to Nashville and back on his time?Originally Posted by RoadrashPaul
Extended warranties on cars and home warranties like American Home Warranty are looking good
Lake Norman, N.C./New Britain, CT.
An Khe 66-67
I don't have a problem with a company with markup. But the homeowner is not a major corporation or the military where huge markups are common. A lot of homeowners are on fixed incomes and can't really afford some of the bs contractors charge. I could see a 200 or 300% markup but not 800. I don't like gouging
Better read the fine print real close. Third party warranty companies are generally worthless and finding anyone local to do work on their behalf can be an ordeal on it's own.
Ranting incoherently
While some of these cost are crookedly high keep in mind for the honest HVAC contractor that does the job by the laws and regulations has cost involved. If I alone were to do work no fancy advertising or storefront shop warehouse for parts and equipment and no other workers I have liability insurance a minimum requirement, training to learn the proper way to do the work, acquiring a hvac license and contractors license, continuing education required yearly to keep those licenses, a 35K vehicle full of another 20-25k parts and tools with insurance to drive to your house or business sometimes twice if parts or materials are needed that aren’t on my vehicle, many of the tools are tools specifically to do refrigeration, the cost of fuel for that vehicle (that about everything charges a fuel service fee) if your are moderately busy you will burn out a full tank every 2 days if you don’t travel far, gas mileage on that vehicle will not be good due to the load it hauls and short trips, EPA license to purchase, handle and possess refrigerant etc. I am going to charge a reasonable parts markup and labor cost and not feel guilty for my rates. It’s easy to look on Amazon or eBay and find purchase parts and think that it should be cheap to get your hvac equipment fixed. If you as the customer wants to and has the knowledge to do it yourself I have no issue with that but remember there is an area there where the average person cannot diagnose or repair an issue. The average person also doesn’t carry any license, liability insurance, specialty tools, vehicle to carry all those parts and tools plus already are at the location of the equipment. There are a lot of things that cost way more than they are worth. Cell phones, vehicles, boats, doctors etc. it’s all in what a person sees as important to spend their money on. Go get your vehicle or boat motor fixed out of warranty and you take those to the repair place. Compare those cost to the honest HVAC contractor and you might find that their cost aren’t so out of line but don’t put all of us HVAC people into the crooked business category. Not everyone takes advantage of people but like everyone are entitled to make a decent profit for their knowledge and skills.
So what was the warranty worth? Nothing it sounds like.
warranty usually covers parts not labor, do you work for free ?
I understand that, but $5,000 dollar profit per bottle? Also, for what its worth you order it online without a lic
where can you order it online without an EPA license ?
They're garbage. They have a service call fee of over $100. Then you are at the mercy of one of their contractors, who could be booked up. 9/10 when your heat goes, it's during a brutal coldsnap, AC always goes during a cold snap, best to take it on the chin and get someone out ASAP than rely on a warranty program. I speak from experience having had one when I bought my last house. Realtors will sell/include them because it seems like a good idea, provides peace of mind, but once you get into the fine print...
Having been on the manufacturer's side of things with water heaters, I saw the actual cost of the item, how much we sold it for, how much it went for retail, and being directly involved with paying labor bills, saw many, many cases of plumbers, contractors sticking it to the customer. It was a daily occurrence. Classic example was a t-couple that could be had at Home Depot for 10-15 bucks but billed to us or the customer at 100, 125 bucks. In my later years in our parts division I was alongside our HVAC guys and saw prices for those products as well. It has definitely jaded my thoughts on parts price gouging. There's a good reason for a reasonable markup, but sticking it to the customer because their unit is down not right.
It was always....and still is confusing to me how our water heater side pays labor (and travel within a reasonable amount with our ASP's), but on the HVAC side most labor is not covered. And there is no tech support for HVAC techs. You are referred to your dealer. Tech support is a huge priority on the WH side. So much so that it is housed in a separate office complex with a big $400,000 Cummins commercial generator to keep the wheels turning if the power goes out.
You cannot order it without a license, it's against Federal law to purchase, handle or possess without a license.
Well when he installed the new unit the warranty was a big selling point from him. Maybe I should have asked more questions upfront and figured out it was on parts only and not labor/travel time but it sure didn't sit well with me. In my opinion that should be taken up with the manufacturer on his end. Maybe that's the norm in that business and I just don't know it.
I cant put that on here but if you do some searching you can find it. Lots of people also sell it on FB marketplace brand new in the box but with a fair markup
I don't know about all that. Not 410a anyway
Last edited by NCrappie; 01-30-2024 at 11:48 AM.
The residential market is based mostly on fixed cost prices. A blower motor cost "X" and a capacitor installed cost "x". Prices are structured based on the gross profit a company has to make in order to be profitable after overhead. I own a commercial/industrial HVAC service company and cannot figure out res contractors are selling systems for what they are. That said...they are doing it because people keep buying it...just like bass boats.
One thing not mentioned in this thread is the cost of overhead. A van now costs $48k and that doesn't even have bins or ladder racks and has 20-40k miles. Tooling a van for service and stocking parts is an additional 8-10k. $4500 for bins and ladder racks. Fuel, vehicle depreciation, insurance, employee benefits and much more. For every hour I pay a tech $42, I have an additional $30 of costs on top of that hourly rate in overhead. So when you get charged $150 for a diagnostic, remember, that tech was paid his wage while driving to your site, figuring out your issue, and providing a solution and the company didn't make any $ for you to get that info if that's all they get is the hourly rate and no parts mark up.
I find it funny when you see "I can buy the refrigerant for $350 for a whole jug". Ok...buy it. Once you get your EPA card. Then buy the gauges, the scales, and all the other tools required to do the job right. But before you add that gas in it, buy a leak detector to find the leak, a recovery machine and recovery tank to recover the gas, buy some torches and brazing rods to fix the leak, while you're at it, get a vacuum pump to pull a proper vacuum, and get your youtube ready to watch videos on how to do what someone spent 4 years training for.
All that said...Profit is not a dirty word. And I do agree that residential HVAC contractors overcharge.
He is 100% correct. You must have an EPA card to purchase or handle.
Buying all the tools and getting a little knowledge is a good investment. Will pay for itself after the first breakdown or 2.
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