Who's switched to copper?

[BP in ME]

Considering trying some all-copper rounds for deer hunting. Anyone made the change already? If so, what do you see for pros and cons? I like the idea of near 100% weight retention and not putting lead on my dinner plate but I also don't really know how much lead exposure there is once you trim away the damaged meat

[yetti462]

I use the barnes expanders in my muzzleloader and the tsx 80gr in my 243. They flat wreck a deer. I'll add some recovered pics of bullets, they are a little hard on meat.
I've used the 130 in 300 black out too. KIMG1451.JPG

[cmclairday2]

Only in my 300 Blk, and they are devastating. Barnes 150g.

[adchunts]

Used a monometal bullet when I shot my Nilgai bull a couple years ago. 210 grain Barnes out of a .338 Win Mag. It did ok. I will use a bonded lead core bullet on the next one. Was a complete pass through, which is a big deal on a tough animal like Nilgai. However, I think dumping all the energy into the animal is the way to go on bigger game. Nilgai don’t bleed well anyway, so a pass through is not really helpful. Will be keeping tabs on this thread, as I am curious about monometal on smaller game.

[Transom]

The real advantage of them is that they hold together when impact velocities are really high. I have a load worked up for a 300 weatherby so I would not have to worry about bullet failure if I happened to take a short 25 yard shot with it. Doing so was a waste as I have never really taken that rifle hunting as I stick to a .270, 7-08, etc.

Their main advantage is that they perform well at high velocity and are usually accurate as it is easy for the manufacturer to assure dimensional accuracy during production. The thing you have to watch out for is that they can fail to open well at lower velocities if that is something you may encounter in your use case.

Generally I stay away from them due to cost and use a plain jane cup and core design.

In the past I have handloaded some Barnes bullets in 223 so that the young Son of a friend of mine could use a .223 for deer hunting. In that application they work well. Another high impact velocity scenario. 223 inside of 50 yards.

[MacIntosh]

I’ve been using copper mono metal bullets for several years, have a dozen or so deer and elk with them, plus more that my wife and brother have shot. We’ve had very good luck, and I prefer them over the lead bullets I have used, mainly because I find they destroy less meat. The flipside of that coin is that that prevents them from being as effective as lead. This is nuanced but basically lead bullets expand differently, and many are designed to fragment, both of which create a larger wound channel—basically the tiny lead fragments cut tissue during the temporary stretch cavity and amplify the wounding, so those fragments are actually an important part of how many bullets work. The wound channel is what kills an animal quickly. Copper monos, because they hold all of their weight, and because they expand in a different manner than lead, create a much narrower wound channel. It is plenty sufficient, but it is definitely not the same thing, and it is highly dependent on velocity, much more so than a lead bullet. Despite what the manufacturers say, nearly all of the folks I’ve talked with about this in detail, including necropsies and examination of recovered bullets, have said that below about 2200 ft./s, perhaps as low as 2000 ft./s with the Barnes LRX or some of the boutique mono bullets designed for longer range, you will not reliably get the expansion you expect and performance will suffer. Because copper bullets have a lower ballistic coefficient, they will also lose velocity faster than a lead bullet, which means the effective range is almost certainly significantly less than with a lead bullet. Also means they will drift more in wind. If you are on the East Coast and you don’t hunt past 300-350 yards or so, this is almost certainly a non-issue. But if you are into longer range hunting, this could be a big deal for you. Also, because of the need for velocity, in order to expand properly, and the fact that the bullet holds nearly all of its weight, you will often be better off with a lighter weight bullet in copper than you would in lead. Also some folks report accuracy issues when mixing lead practice ammo with copper hinting ammo—you may need to use a copper solvent and clean the barrel down to bare metal to get good accuracy with the monos.
I’ve had good luck with factory barnes ttsx and LRX. My preference is the LRX. Keep your velocity above 2200fps at impact and they should treat you fine.

[BP in ME]

Thanks for the info, MacIntosh. I've never shot a whitetail beyond 150 yds so copper is fine that way. Any potential problems with being TOO close? I've taken at least half of my deer inside 25 yds. FWIW I'd be using a 6.5CM or 7MM-08 so we're talking what, 2700-2800+ MV for either of those

Also, in my oversimplified view of ballistics, I like to tell myself that the given the same caliber with two different bullet weights, the lighter bullet will leave the barrel faster because it has less inertia to overcome. So when you mention that the lighter copper rounds decelerate faster subjecting it to more drop and drift I have to ask, did it start out going faster or not? Do factory loads adjust the powder levels with this in mind?

[MacIntosh]

Zero issue with too close. Worst case you’ll lose a petal or two, but if anything that’s better—higher likelihood of greater trauma. Dont give it a minute’s thought.
I had a 7mm-08 for a while, the 120gr ttsx factory loads are great on deer, Ive shot pronghorn with them and outright flattened them out to 250 yards, it’d work farther that was just as far as I needed. I would not hesitate to use that load on moose or elk either out to range where velocity dropped below 2200fps. 6.5cm I like the 127gr LRX’s, that gun will have a faster barrel twist so the higher BC bullet will likely work very well for you. Yes, the lighter bullets usually start faster. Depending on BC and weight one or the other may carry that velocity out farther, you just have to plug it into a ballistic calculator and see where it becomes relevant. Inside 300 yards none of this is relevant, both of those cartridges will do exactly the same thing, animals won’t be able to tell the difference.
Id post a pic but this site wants me to resize—one of the few TTSX bullets I have recovered is from a 30 06 I shot an elk with at just over 50 yards, the bullet was lodged against the opposite side, ball joint, that bullet lost one pedal and had another one almost broken off. Still had 95% weight retention. I have another bullet here that I used to dispatch a wounded deer, that bullet went through the brisket, and I found it barely protruding from the skin after passing through the spine on the opposite side. That was shot at about 15 yards from a 30 06, about 2800+ ft./s at impact. That bullet lost half of three of the petals. In all cases they still worked quite well! of everything I have seen, those are the only two I’ve recovered. Everything else has been either dropped in its tracks, or down within a few steps of where it was hit. Only two animals I’ve seen ran any distance at all, one was an elk went about 20 or 30 yards, the other was an antelope shot about 200 yards Through the lungs ran about 30 or 40 yards. On deer You’ll typically see a caliber-sized entrance wound, very quick expansion, but not a lot of bloodshot meat around the wound channel, and the exit hole will generally be between the size of a golf ball, maybe a tennis ball, on the offside.

[96 Champ]

Barnes are the ticket, been using them in my 270, 25, 260 & muzzle loader for years

[BP in ME]

Thanks again, Mac. There's so much I don't know and I try to educate myself (enough to make good choices on what to use) but after a while my head hurts and a week later I've forgotten most of it anyways

[MacIntosh]

Thanks again, Mac. There's so much I don't know and I try to educate myself (enough to make good choices on what to use) but after a while my head hurts and a week later I've forgotten most of it anyways

Go buy a couple boxes of barnes vortx 7mm08 120gr TTSX loads, and 6.5cm vortx long range 127gr LRX . Dont shoot critters that are farther away than 350 yards. Past 350 you dont have enough velocity for the bullets to expand properly. Add oregano, stir and serve. Shoot a couple deer, if you like them buy more. If you dont, try something else. Simple as that!

[Transom]

If you are hunting deer or elk don’t overthink it. Just pick something in a normal proven game bullet in a normal weight made for medium game and go hunting. The only time you have to really think things through is if you are using a less powerful than optimal or way more powerful than optimal rifle. Low impact velocities or high impact velocities.

[BP in ME]

If you are hunting deer or elk don’t overthink it. Just pick something in a normal proven game bullet in a normal weight made for medium game and go hunting. The only time you have to really think things through is if you are using a less powerful than optimal or way more powerful than optimal rifle. Low impact velocities or high impact velocities.

I'm just looking at the idea of getting away from lead in my food (can't afford to lose any more brain cells) and I like the idea of near 100% bullet weight retention. I've taken a lot of critters with good old Corelokts and happy with other brands as well. Not worried about being underpowered. I have enough firepower for any game in North America. The only question is what I'd carry up the mountains if I went out west. I'd love to take an elk with my dad's '06 but the thought of lugging that slab of maple up and down the slopes isn't very appealing

[Big Al]

BP, tried to message you but couldn't. Go to the New England Fishing page and check out my post