struggling with heavier braid-to-leader connection knots

[coreynov902]

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to what my issue is. I run 15-20 pound braid to an 8 pound flouro leader on my spinning rod and never have an issue. I use an Alberto knot with 7 wraps up and 7-8 wraps down. I want to use 40 pound braid to a 17-20 pound flouro or mono leader, but I keep having issues with the knot coming loose. I'm using the same Alberto knot and the same 7 wraps up and 7-8 wraps down. I'm leaving about an 1/8 to 1/4 inch of tag end on my braid and am cutting my mono/flouro tag end tight to the knot. I'm really tugging on the knot to make sure it's tight before I cut my tag ends. Any idea what I'm doing wrong that it's coming undone? It does seem to hold for a little while (probably 25-50 casts). I lost a Magdraft a couple weeks ago and would have lost another bait last week but fortunately I checked the knot before a cast and when I tested it by pulling on the lines, it came apart, so I just gave up on running a leader and went straight braid. I also lost a Spro KGB Chad Shad last year due to a connection knot failure as well, so this has cost me a good chunk of money already. If I can't get it figured out I'm just going to run straight braid, but there are definitely times where I want to run a leader if I can. Any help would be appreciated.

[johnnybass]

Only thing I can think of is that the heavier leader likely takes a lot more effort for the braid to dig in. I remember when a guide showed me how to tie an FG, I realized I wasn't tightening the knot nearly hard hard enough. He wrapped the the two ends and really cranked it down.

[jgiljr]

I started using the Red Phillips knot. Very easy to tie and it has not failed me yet.

[goodman_fishing]

I've had to force myself to learn the FG knot and have been better for it. The blood knot was fairly prone to popping on me.

I bought the "helper" tool and that very much helped me get the FG down.

[Fishahaulic]

I had the same issue for a while and found that you have to put twice the effort into pulling everything tite enough to get everything to hold together. Once you think you've pulled tite enough, pull harder.

[5-20]

Couple of guesses. I think 7-8 wraps is too much. I like 6 up and maybe 5-6 down. Any more than that and the knot doesn't seem to cinch down as well.

When going up, you've got to have a really good pinch on where the braid goes over the leader for the first turn. Then when you make your last wrap on the up side, you've got to have a really good pinch and tight twist on the line before coming back down. You don't want that uppermost loop sliding over any of the wraps as you cinch the knot closed.

Look at where Alberto pinches down on the line in his video on the Alberto knot in his YouTube video. Do the same things he shows in his video and see if that helps. If not, there are a bunch of different videos on the Alberto knot all using slightly different techniques to tie the knot.

One the reason the pinch is so important at the bottom and then the top of the knot is that they also keep your leader lines parallel to each other. You don't want them to get twisted.

[City17Banner]

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to what my issue is. I run 15-20 pound braid to an 8 pound flouro leader on my spinning rod and never have an issue. I use an Alberto knot with 7 wraps up and 7-8 wraps down. I want to use 40 pound braid to a 17-20 pound flouro or mono leader, but I keep having issues with the knot coming loose. I'm using the same Alberto knot and the same 7 wraps up and 7-8 wraps down. I'm leaving about an 1/8 to 1/4 inch of tag end on my braid and am cutting my mono/flouro tag end tight to the knot. I'm really tugging on the knot to make sure it's tight before I cut my tag ends. Any idea what I'm doing wrong that it's coming undone? It does seem to hold for a little while (probably 25-50 casts). I lost a Magdraft a couple weeks ago and would have lost another bait last week but fortunately I checked the knot before a cast and when I tested it by pulling on the lines, it came apart, so I just gave up on running a leader and went straight braid. I also lost a Spro KGB Chad Shad last year due to a connection knot failure as well, so this has cost me a good chunk of money already. If I can't get it figured out I'm just going to run straight braid, but there are definitely times where I want to run a leader if I can. Any help would be appreciated.

Before diving into the mechanics of connecting braid mainlines and fluorocarbon (FC) leaders, let's consider why this combination is beneficial. For the type of fishing I do, primarily using reaction lures like crankbaits, chatterbaits, and topwaters for smallmouth bass, this setup offers a trouble-free experience while casting and retrieving. The stiff FC leader helps prevent the treble hooks on crankbaits and topwater lures from wrapping around the front treble hook, avoiding the dreaded "spiral of doom" during retrieval. Additionally, modern 8-strand braid provides excellent casting distance in various fishing conditions and can last a long time on the reel if properly maintained throughout the fishing season. The most important advantage of this type of connection for me is its bite-off protection from the toothy critters in the waters I fish in NW Wisconsin, such as northern pike and muskie. Even walleye can occasionally bite off lighter braid in the correct conditions. The braid mainline to fluorocarbon leader connection offers clear advantages, with only one key weakness: the connection knot. If tied incorrectly, it can be the Achilles' heel of the system, leading to the loss of expensive lures and perhaps the fish of a lifetime as well.

As someone who only runs a braid mainline and a FC leader on all of my traditional casting and JDM BFS style casting rods I recommend three approaches to making reliable connections between the mainline and the leader.

• Connecting a braid mainline to a fluorocarbon (FC) leader can be done using various knots and methods, each with its own advantages and disadvantages:
  
  
  1. **FG Knot**:
  - **Best for**: Rigging on land or a stable fishing platform.
  - **Pros**: Strong and reliable, especially with the Daiichi Knot Assist 2.0 tool.
  - **Cons**: Challenging to tie in windy conditions or on unstable fishing platforms.
  
  
  2. **Double Back-to-Back Uni-Knot**:
  - **Best for**: Windy conditions or less stable fishing platforms.
  - **Pros**: Easy to tie in challenging on-the-water fishing conditions.
  - **Cons**: Won't pass through semi-micro or micro rod guides on most JDM rods.
  
  
  3. **Power Pro Hollow Ace Splicing**:
  - **Best for**: Splicing heavy FC leaders (40# to 150#).
  - **Pros**: Strong connection without deforming the mainline or leader.
  - **Cons**: Time-consuming, requires experience and good visual acuity, not practical on the water.
  
  
  4. **Crimping**:
  - **Best for**: Exceptionally heavy FC leader connections.
  - **Pros**: Easy to learn, reliable mechanical connection.
  - **Cons**: Requires expensive crimping tools and components like stainless steel sleeves and barrel swivels.
  
  
  Each method of connecting braid mainline to FC leader has its specific use case, so choosing the right one depends on your fishing conditions and personal preferences. For me, the ease and utility of being able to tie connection knots in any type of fishing conditions has led me to adopt the "Back-to-Back Uni-Knot" as my preferred connection knot choice followed by the FG knot if I have time to rig up before a fishing trip. The other two type of connection methods are useful in specific situations but are simply overkill for traditional smallmouth bass fishing purposes in my experience.

[bassboat1]

I've switched over to the FG knot, except for FC leaders under 8#. With your 40# braid and heavy leaders and Alberto, put some gloves on and pull until the wraps change color. You don't know how tight is too tight until you've broken one testing.

[PatriotAW4]

Double Uni knot is all I have used for years. Strong and easy to tie.

[DaveBrabec]

Try mono. I use mono on everything under 12 lb test

[thelastcoco]

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to what my issue is. I run 15-20 pound braid to an 8 pound flouro leader on my spinning rod and never have an issue. I use an Alberto knot with 7 wraps up and 7-8 wraps down. I want to use 40 pound braid to a 17-20 pound flouro or mono leader, but I keep having issues with the knot coming loose. I'm using the same Alberto knot and the same 7 wraps up and 7-8 wraps down. I'm leaving about an 1/8 to 1/4 inch of tag end on my braid and am cutting my mono/flouro tag end tight to the knot. I'm really tugging on the knot to make sure it's tight before I cut my tag ends. Any idea what I'm doing wrong that it's coming undone? It does seem to hold for a little while (probably 25-50 casts). I lost a Magdraft a couple weeks ago and would have lost another bait last week but fortunately I checked the knot before a cast and when I tested it by pulling on the lines, it came apart, so I just gave up on running a leader and went straight braid. I also lost a Spro KGB Chad Shad last year due to a connection knot failure as well, so this has cost me a good chunk of money already. If I can't get it figured out I'm just going to run straight braid, but there are definitely times where I want to run a leader if I can. Any help would be appreciated.

I use the no-tension FG knot on everything from 8lb braid to 8lb fluoro up to 65lb braid to 80lb leader. Works great. Passes through guides easily. I can tie it anywhere and in any condition in under 30 secs.

[RFSims]

I use a 1/2 Alberto. 10 wraps down, none up. Pretty small diameter and I have never had one fail. Lots easier to tie than the others.

[dragon1]

Is this the no tension FG being noted?

[dragon1]

I use a 1/2 Alberto. 10 wraps down, none up. Pretty small diameter and I have never had one fail. Lots easier to tie than the others.

Yeppers, aka crazy Alberto/Shin Fukae

[fish365]

I had the same issue for a while and found that you have to put twice the effort into pulling everything tite enough to get everything to hold together. Once you think you've pulled tite enough, pull harder.

This^^^^^^ I recently switched to 80lb braid on my frog/swimbait set up. You really have to muscle the knot. The 80lb makes skipping a frog under trees a breeze.

[ThomasD]

Yeppers, aka crazy Alberto/Shin Fukae

This is the knot I use on dropshot rigs. Never had one fail.

[Warcat]

Had same problem. Spinning gear no problem. Went to 65 braid to 20-25 fluro leader and wanted to come loose. Now I add one small drop of super glue and that problem went away. I also only wrap 4-5 turns each way on the heavy stuff.

[thelastcoco]

Is this the no tension FG being noted?

Yes that's the no-tension fg knot I use.

[DrewFlu33]

FG knot is the deal on heavier stuff. Spend an hour to learn it, crank on it hard before cutting off your tags (I keep a set of lightweight work gloves in my boat for cranking FG knots down to stop braid from cutting my hands), you'll be happy you figured it out.

I use the Lazy Alberto/Shin knot mentioned above on lighter stuff and, if I had to, would do it on heavier stuff too. If you're completely opposed to learning the FG, I think this variation on the Alberto would solve your issues since it's only getting wrapped one direction instead of down and up. With the standard version, I suspect that heavy line is just preventing it from cinching down all the way when you need to wrap both directions. Not exactly the same, but I've had some issues with my quick line-to-lure knot (the Orvis knot) seating properly with heavy line at times. I think it's the same principle.

[coreynov902]

Thanks for all the suggestions and info guys. I have tried the FG knot several times. I am just really inconsistent in how well I tie it. I've had a couple that held really well and a couple that unraveled on me pretty quickly. I also hate taking so much time to tie it, especially if I'm only tying on a one or two foot leader. I think I'm going to try doing fewer wraps (and tightening as much as possible) to start with, and if I still keep having problems I'm going to switch to a different knot.